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20131202
20131210
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the anc was deemed a terrorist organization in the u.s., the plo was one of the biggest supporters of the anc. so i think both because of that history and also because of the way conflict is reported in south africa, there's a kind of deep identification. and i think to the extent that the interview subjects i had talked about it it's a kind of identification around the possibilities of irreconcilable -- seemingly irreconcilable differences potentially being with bridged. because you'll be, you'll be in townships, or you'll be in parts of johannesburg where people will suddenly be in school with an afrikan-speaking white person whose participants probably -- whose parents probably supported apartheid. and people will be in school or social networks together. so i think that to the extent they're thinking about the middle east as opposed to what's happening down the street, this message would be seemingly irreconcilable differences are sometimes reconciled, or at least people come to a point of being able to peacefully tolerate one another. enter thank you. >> we have time for one l
for the question. the big accommodation that was made by the anc in the negotiations that led to the first election as you probably know was to keep the terms private property rights and the basic struts of the economy protected. that was the trade-off. the crude way of putting it is the vote and the right to have an effect in politics in exchange for no radical change in the economic structure, no radical redistribution of wealth. so 80% of land, 80% of wealth was held by whites, a minority of about 9%. and that entwining of race and class absolutely constrains the ability for a people to feel that political liberation was followed by economic liberation. and that is the biggest challenge for the government and for the society, is figuring out legal ways in which to alter those dynamics. now at the same time, in the last 19 years two million black people have moved into middle income stat that. -- strata. so not often, clearly, but also not enough so we want to be careful in terms of how we evaluate what's going on there. but certainly, that, you know, the entire thrust of the liberation movement
of the guerrilla army, the formation, the armed wing of the anc and the chief of intelligence. slate got this succession of people from different parts of the liberation movement taking over who had been out of the country for longer to time, or had been imprisoned for laundries of time. and to a certain extent that shape some of the mistakes that have been made in the last yea years. >> does thabo mbeki talk but what surprised we came back after all those years and except? >> want to thank you quickly learn when you interview people or politicians and political power is nothing ever surprise them. so the main thing that upset him every time i was into being and is, i would ask that question what would surprise you to what was unusual, what jumped out at you? every, i would say that he would lean back, take a look at me with a lizardlike look when you know you have irritated him. and that would come. know, my brother, never surprised. never admit you were surprised. i think the things that surprised thabo mbeki certainly who was the second president of the liberated south africa was exte
, safety in numbers, at a time when the anc was still banned, the political situation deteriorating, violence abroad and where the isolation of south africa was impacting on the flow of anything. we found and were able to report back to our respective party leaders, and i had half an hour with an anxious, worried and very uncertain margaret thatcher. we reported back on the tragic success of apartheid in separating one person from another, on the urgency of the need for change to avoid a looming catastrophe and how the united kingdom's public position also needed to change. but we also and apparently rather unusually reported some hope. i said in the house there is a large group of people in south africa who many have ignored. they are those of all races who are working patiently for fellowship and reconciliation in pure human terms by meeting each other and sharing their lives and experiences. some of those with whom we stayed were white opponents of apartheid and have been so for decades, but all -- white and black finish were people who realized that the abolition of the legislat
amazing story that he told me was on the night before they left prison calling all the anc prisoners together and saying, yes, they would be justified in acts of revenge, retaliation and retribution, but there could never then be a strong, successful, multiracial society, and that was his second great achievement, to achieve change through reconciliation. but, you know, there was a didder achievement, refusing to rest or relax when he gave up the presidency. he had great achievement to his name. he himself wrote that in the first part of his life he had climbed one great mountain to end apartheid, but now in his later life he wanted to climb another great mountain, to rid the world of poverty and especially the outrage of child poverty. and i need speak of only what i saw in the times that i worked with him, how quietly and without fanfare he went about his work. 2005 i flew to south africa to meet nelson mandela to persuade him to come to london so that he could then persuade the finance ministers of the need for debt relief to relieve poverty, and this he did. and then in 2006 with
Search Results 0 to 4 of about 5